American Candid

Jeffrey Side contends that I "hijacked" threads and spammed with fiction-related links at the OtherStream and The Argotist Online groups at Facebook, yet he deleted one thread in which he contends my transgressions occurred.  In another thread at OtherStream group, I deleted, though Jeffrey Side maintained he deleted, my comments about PROSETICS that intruded upon consideration of Dana Gioia's forthcoming review of Jack Foley's work.  Tim VanDyke kindly sent me a partial transcript of Jeffrey Side's OtherStream thread titled against Ann Bogle.  I abruptly left the OtherStream group after reading a comment by Chris Watts, formerly of Bard College, who typed that he planned to misattribute statements in that thread and to publish them online.  I reread the partial thread a week later and decided it is in the genre LIVE THEATER.  Here it is, verbatim (I love it that Side's typo is "form"):

• The thread that Jeffrey Side started August 1, 2012 at the OtherStream group at Facebook:

[Thread header]: "I’ve had to remove Ann Bogle from the Argotist FB group, as she was relentless in her determination to carry on starting threads that were not poetry related, and also “hijacking” other threads by posting comments not related to the threads’ topic matter. I explained to her that the Argotist group was solely for discussion of poetry but she ignored me, and continued unrelentingly. I, therefore, had no choice but to remove her form the group."

o Anny Ballardini I like Ann Bogle, sorry she did that, but then I almost never follow this list, because of Time, that is why.
6 hours ago • Like • 1
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Ann Bogle Jeffrey, poets are my people, and poetry my reading, and poetics my guide in considering prosetics. Poets consider developments in fiction less than I consider developments in poetry. My security breach in broaching fiction and creative nonfiction at The Argotist Online, where my poems have appeared, the offense of it to you, has indirectly helped me to understand poetry's segregation of genres, similar to the separation of prose narrative (fiction and cnfic) and poetry in American creative writing programs and within most literary journals. Genre is a passion for me, and I like to quote Lyn Hejinian, "prose is not a genre but a multitude of genres."
5 hours ago • Like • 2
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Anny Ballardini Well, we have prose poetry
5 hours ago via mobile • Like • 1
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Ann Bogle PP/FF, the title of Peter Conner's anthology of prose poetry and flash fiction, is another guide for me, both in considering musical applications to prosetics and the differences between pp/ff.
5 hours ago • Like
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Jeffrey Side Ann, your opinions on prose fiction are not offensive to me in the least. They are just inappropriate subject matter for a poetry discussion group. Why don’t you start an FB group for your ideas? I’m sure it will be welcomed.
5 hours ago • Like • 2
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Rich Haber hey jeff, here's an idea for you: fuck off, you pretentious fop. and ann, why bother? my ex once gave me a miraculously helpful piece of advice - never stay where you're not wanted.
5 hours ago • Like • 1
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Rich Haber censorship is bad enuff from mainstream asswipes, but among artists? it's totally shitbox
5 hours ago • Like • 2
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Ann Bogle Jeff cross-posted his statement (above) at The Argotist Online then removed me as a member of that group. May I request that you let The Argotist Online group know that you have not canceled my voice and related posts at OtherStream in case they care to respond directly.
5 hours ago • Like
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Jeff Swanson Jeff, you wear a powdered wig and have a heart beauty-mark on your face? I never imagined you like that.
5 hours ago • Like • 1
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Rich Haber lol - what's language all about, if you cant stretch denotations into connos, eh mate?
5 hours ago • Like • 1
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Jeffrey Side I’ve always wanted a mate who doesn’t use punctuation.
5 hours ago • Like • 2
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Jeffrey Side … apart from after the contraction “connos”, that is.
5 hours ago • Like • 1
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Ann Bogle Rich Haber, I appreciate your awareness and support, but reserve the imperative use of fuck for unnamed soldiers who kill, maim, and dislocate civilians.
5 hours ago • Like • 1
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Rich Haber whew, smells of authoritarianism in here. putz
5 hours ago • Like • 1
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Jeffrey Side Yes, Jeff, Ann is right. I am not a soldier, and so to say “fuck” to me is not right.
5 hours ago • Like
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Rich Haber hmm, good point, ann. but i'm from bklyn. fuck isnt reserved at all. i'm not reserved. wouldnt wanna be anything like it, neither, double negs not withstanding. or understanding, fer that matter.
5 hours ago • Like • 1
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Chris Watts Glad I stayed the fuck out of that one... I love you all, love reading you all, so there.
5 hours ago via mobile • Like • 3
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Jeffrey Side I never use four letter words unless I’m ejaculating.
5 hours ago • Unlike • 2
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Rich Haber "...and I love ehhh vreee bahh deeee, since I fell in love with YOU!"
5 hours ago • Like • 2
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Jeffrey Side That’s the most sensible thing you’ve said up to now.
5 hours ago • Like • 1
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Ann Bogle Rich Haber, one guy at an A.A. mtg. in St. Cloud gained the sympathy of the group by clarifying that the U.S. had trained him to be a killer and he had ret'd from Iraq and hit a man at a bar for which he was charged and sentenced to attend A.A., itself a form of religion. I was in attendance with a friend and told her before the mtg. I did not wish to identify myself as an alcoholic, though it was a "closed" meeting, open only to self-described alcoholics, and she said, say that you have a desire not to drink alcohol, the only requirement of membership, so when it was my turn, I said, "My name is Ann. I have a desire not to drink alcohol." My presence that night was regarded a little suspiciously but I thanked them for letting me attend at the request of my friend.
5 hours ago • Like
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Ann Bogle So, there was my chance to say fuck you to a killer, and I didn't do it. I thanked him and the others for letting me sit in the room as an out-of-town visitor of my friend.
4 hours ago • Like
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Rich Haber i've done some serious work, trying to reconcile my ambiguity about our volunteer armed servicemen and women - kinda lengthy to jump into here. in short, my feelings and thoughts surround those who would sacrifice their own lives for their "countrymen"
4 hours ago • Like • 1
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Rich Haber conflicting with nationalism vs one big world family
4 hours ago • Like • 1
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Jeff Swanson Hm, that's interesting. Instead of sacrificing yourself for your countrymen, you refuse to fight so that you may forge a relationship with your world country. I like that.
4 hours ago • Like
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Jeff Swanson Because god knows, these days it's not your "countrymen" or "countrywomen" you're fighting for, but the Oligarchy who sent you out to protect their interests.
4 hours ago • Like • 1
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Rich Haber never said that, jeff. truth is, i dont have the guts to shoot anyone. but the sad fact, that all these military families are so misguided and confused, is just sickening. their bravery and loyalty is ignored - as in song Universal Soldier.
4 hours ago • Like
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Rich Haber and the oligarchy cant send soldiers if the soldiers wont go.
4 hours ago • Like
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Jeff Swanson Of course, but why wouldn't they go? They want to be rich, right? If you don't play the game, you don't maybe might gonna be rich someday, right? So play the game, or we ain't gonna let you be rich, kid!
4 hours ago • Like • 1
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Rich Haber you must be young. we antiwar activists started antiwar groups INSIDE the military, during the viet nam "police action" - nothing that size is happening now, but there is an iraq vets antiwar group, joined at the hip, with the viet vets group and vets for peace group - very difficult, getting soldiers to turn on their officers and say - Sir, that order is illegal, Sir!
4 hours ago • Like • 1
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Rich Haber joining the army isnt about getting rich. never was. they were the lowest paid workers in the working class, worldwide. nowadays, different story, with the corporatists transforming us into a military society - man, we are so wayyyy off topic. so jeff, you are not the other jeff's alter-ego? another cyber-identity, using another IP address?
4 hours ago • Like • 1
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Jeff Swanson Dude, you're not thinking laterally. We play by the rules in this country because we all want to stay in the game, and the game is getting rich. Nobody wants to disobey, because then they get put in the penalty box, i.e., jail, and despite free room and board and all the sex you can stand, jail's no fun.

And no, I am not Jeff Side. If I was an alter ego of his, do you really think I'd call myself Jeff? I'd call myself Rich Haber.
4 hours ago • Like • 1
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Jeffrey Side I can vouch that Jeff is not me. I would never use the word "dude" when addressing an older person than myself.
4 hours ago • Like • 2
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Rich Haber lol oh u kids. i'm no military expert but we used to chant "Just turn back if the orders are whack!" - the basis was that any soldier is morally and legally bound to refuse to obey an order that is "illegal" under the articles of war, as laid out in the geneva conventions
4 hours ago • Like • 2
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Jeff Swanson In California, we call everyone Dude. It's a term of great respect among our kind.
4 hours ago • Like • 2
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Ann Bogle ANN BOGLE, ANN BOGLE is my blog post that links to Kevin Thurston's blog, Fucking Lies (Polite Happiness) and a poem posted there written by Han Scrable called "Scrable on Bogle." My correspondent, B'go, in considering the poem Scrable wrote, offered lines Bob Dylan owned before he gave them to the world. B'go writes, "I was thinking that as far as extemporaneous prosody on cigarette shops that this was the gold standard."
4 hours ago • Like • 1
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Rich Haber omg AB at her best. oh ouch
4 hours ago • Like • 1
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Rich Haber well u got yer Major Dudes and ur minor chords and it's just too sadly bad when poetry sails and prosody fails, among cheers and jeers and what have we heres
4 hours ago • Like • 1
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Rich Haber rich, to day-job boss, "I'm soooo sorry I quit"
4 hours ago • Like • 1
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Ann Bogle Dylan's extemporaneous prosody on cigarette shops the gold standard. Jeffrey Side, this is what might be described as a "successful' thread with its passions and participants loving and fighting. Do you feel it might reach those academics you most hope to persuade of your arguments in poetics? As I asked in WHAT at F'naut without your answer, who are they you most hope to persuade? I claimed that in your recent jottings in comment threads on FB that it seemed you had "enemies" in mind with names, you used the word "enemy" to describe academic gatekeepers of post-avant (not your word, that's Adam Fieled's) academic poetry. If you cultivated similar enemies? Would that help your position academically? Protestant heritage not belief causes me to fault behavior not men.
4 hours ago • Like • 1
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Jeffrey Side The digressive development of this current thread (entertaining as some of it has been) is the reason I removed you from the Argotist group.
3 hours ago • Like • 1
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Rich Haber frumpified foppery, frugally fritting fruffery thru the tulips of triangarulation - tut-tut, i say, get thee to a nunnery. whatta waste of good oxygen.
3 hours ago • Like • 1
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Luis Lemus Attica, Attica... #FistRaisedinSolidarity (smile) Aren't artists supposed to stand together, fraternal bickering aside? I have read this and other threads trying to discern the point of this brouhaha only to ultimately conclude this is a tempest in a teacup. Make art, not war. The forums for writer and artist are a pretty small sandbox; let's play together (smile). Peace.
3 hours ago • Like • 1
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Jeff Swanson Ann Bogle's extemporaneous prosody on Ann Bogle is the Ann Bogle of this thread. Ann Bogle.
3 hours ago • Like • 1
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Jeffrey Side I agree, Luis. Rich obviously doesn’t like me because I removed Ann from the Argotist group for perfectly legitimate reasons. I can understand his loyalty to her as a friend (I assume he is a friend) but there’s no need for him to be abusive to me. Even Ann hasn’t resorted to that—at least not yet.
3 hours ago • Like • 1
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Ann Bogle Jeffrey Side, you had represented (though I might have wanted an editor in you besides) my e-chapbooks, so, for that career-related investment I had made with you, I failed to defend Bobbi Lurie more fully (by disassociating from you? retracting my e-books?) when you described her as psychotic in an email. The links to my e-books are probably still working. Rachel Lisi designed the cover of one of them, and Daniel Harris gave ten illustrations. All I wanted to say, and you are avoiding the subject rather stupidly, is, and I said it in more than one place and way, your poetics collection of essay, responses, etc. and fight with Seth Abramson about it, did not name names in a way that might have been useful in considering or applying your arguments. Your cry that it went by not celebrated caused me to plunge in as a reader preparing to review your email correspondence, Other Voices, with Jake Berry. Jake, in turn, took a dip, a little swim, in my prosetics, and responded kindly. I am in your coral as a writer, and you are revoking my digressive strategies. It seems strange you represented my collections as e-books unless you were aligning yourself in another silent debate in poetry.
3 hours ago • Like • 1
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Ann Bogle And btw prosody is a system of versification.
3 hours ago • Like • 1
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Rich Haber digression=development=devolution=dissolution=de-salvation=salivation=spit=jackshit
3 hours ago • Like • 1
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Jeff Swanson Scatological versification.
3 hours ago • Like • 2
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Ann Bogle 59
3 hours ago • Like
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Rich Haber ok, jeff, calling my dear friend bobbi psychotic is beyond whatever shitball i rolled out for you. i'm not obliged to be polite because you deserve human respect. you don't. you're just a waste of time. this is my last posting to you, scumbag.
2 hours ago • Like • 1
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Ann Bogle I feel sorry that Carol cannot select "like" for Jeff Swanson's comment about volunteer army defending oligarchy. Carol Novack, love you Carol, is broke, something she'd always feared but that was not likely to occur in her lifetime, I told her, and it didn't. I miss Carol.
2 hours ago • Like • 3
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Jeffrey Side Ann, I was unaware that the links to your ebooks were not working. I will correct that. If I had intended to remove the actual ebooks I would not have left them as listed on the site. If that is what all your silliness is about, then you should have told me the links were inactive instead of causing trouble here. I assumed you were more mature than this.

Regarding my saying Bobbi Laurie was psychotic. I said her emails to me had become psychotic and confusing to me, much like your posts here have been. Here is the email exchange you and I had about it. The first email is my response to your asking if I would do an ebook of her poems, which I initially refused to do, but later agreed to.

Me:

I've had dealings with Bobbi Lurie in the past, and to be frank it wasn't all that pleasant. Her email exchanges with me became more and more psychotic and confusing, and her tone and language were belligerent towards me. Sorry for my negativity, and I appreciate your trying to help her out.

You:

Thanks for letting me know of the experience you've had with Bobbi, as sad as it makes me to hear it. I have had to make my way carefully with Bobbi myself, as I know her life circumstances have not been easy, and she becomes suddenly distrustful. The internet, especially, though she is a good writer there, sometimes even better than good, at times deluges her with confusion.

Me:

The only way I could consider doing an ebook for her is if you or Marc Vincenz act as intermediaries for me.

You:

Sound good. Let me know if there's anything we need to do first and when. Thanks so much, Jeff.
2 hours ago • Like • 1
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Rich Haber in case anyone is interested, bobbi's son Noah just went blind and she is recuperating from an ear operation. i will forward anything anyone wants to send her.
2 hours ago • Like
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Ann Bogle Jeffrey Side, I did not type that the links were not working.
2 hours ago • Like
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Jeffrey Side You said I retracted your ebooks.
2 hours ago • Like
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Luis Lemus Jeff (not to take) Sides: ultimately my loyalties lie with AB and not C, as she is at the very least an acquaintance of long standing and someone whose work I respect utterly. You also have some respectable offerings, therefore urging respectful restraint and understanding on all sides. Abrazos.
2 hours ago • Like • 1
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Ann Bogle Jeffrey Side, define "psychotic" then. You are wildly evasive. Who knew you were wild? I wrote "distrustful" and you are not? I wrote "confusion" and you are not confused. Bobbi knows about this correspondence that Jeff quotes here, accurately (it is plain that Jeff and I do not have day jobs), painstakingly, and ... okay, Princess Di ...
2 hours ago • Like • 1
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Jeffrey Side Luis, I have nothing against Ann. She seems to think I retracted her ebooks that I published, which I have not—the links to them are just broken, which I will fix. This is the cause, it seems, for all the trouble she is causing. All she had to do was email me, let me know the links were broken and I would have fixed them.
2 hours ago • Like • 1
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Bob Spryszak you're all wrong... the word fuck is an aphrodisiac. Every other use is just silly.
2 hours ago • Like • 2
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Rich Haber cant read either - "...I failed to defend Bobbi Lurie more fully (by disassociating from you? retracting my e-books?) when you..."
2 hours ago • Like • 1
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Jeffrey Side I am always confused by your posts, Ann.
2 hours ago • Like • 1
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Rich Haber this is how wars get started. i'm outta the kitchen, cant take the heat. bye.
2 hours ago • Like • 1
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Ann Bogle Jeffrey Side, you are misreading. Or you misread quickly once. I asked whether your refusal to issue e-book by Bobbi after you had engaged in a long (?) personal correspondence with her, ought to have required (of me) that I retract my e-books and dissociate from you. I have not stated that the links are not working or that you retracted the e-books. You have stated that, and you are misquoting me.
2 hours ago • Like • 1
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Jeff Swanson There is more personality on display here than in a hundred ordinary internet locations.
2 hours ago • Like • 2
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Rich Haber ps - luis, you are a true peacekeeper. glad to make your acquaintance.
2 hours ago • Like • 1
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Jeffrey Side I thought you were complaining about the broken links. It seems you are not. What you do regarding Bobbi is up to you. I did agree to do an ebook for her, but refused to deal with her directly as I can’t get on with her and nor she me. I asked you to act as go-between, which you agreed to. But I’ve not heard anymore about the matter from you, until now.
2 hours ago • Like • 1
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Rich Haber pps Bob Spryszak who is that guy in your ID pic?
2 hours ago • Like
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Ann Bogle Jeffrey Side, in the real publishing world, writers have agents. Your proposal to publish her e-book as long as there were a "sane" chaperone was rejected, by her, in full awareness of your opinion of her correspondence with you.
2 hours ago • Like
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Jeffrey Side Well, Ann, all I can say is that you are very underhand showing her my email behind my back. I hope you don’t do this with all your friends emails.
2 hours ago • Like
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Jeffrey Side By the way, I don’t think you are such a sane chaperone after all, if you behaviour here is taken into account.
2 hours ago • Like • 1
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Bob Spryszak Rich - it's Billy Sunday.
2 hours ago • Like • 1
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David Simmer II I'm having taco salad for lunch!
2 hours ago • Like • 1
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Ann Bogle Jeffrey Side, I related it to her, yes, without forwarding your or my email about her to her. Here, I have fetched the Bob Dylan prosody cited above. Fetch is a game even cats enjoy, mine did:
2 hours ago • Like • 1
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Ann Bogle Bob Dylan wrote this: I want a dog that’s going to collect and clean my bath
return my cigarette and give tobacco to my animals
and give my birds a commission.

I want, I’m lookin’ for somebody to sell my dog
collect my clip, buy my animal and straighten out my bird.

I’m lookin for a place that can bathe my bird
buy my dog, collect my clip, sell me cigarettes and commission my bath.

I’m lookin for a place that’s gonna sell my dog, burn my bird and sell me for a cigarette
bird my buy collect my will and bathe my commission

I’m lookin for a place that’s gonna animal my soul,
knit my return, bathe my foot and collect my dog,
commission me, sell my animal to the bird to clip
and buy my bath and return me back to the cigarettes.
2 hours ago • Like • 3
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Jeffrey Side You are as mad as a hatter, Ann!
about an hour ago • Like • 1
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Ann Bogle I left it a little vague in my writing to the board of Mad Hat re: my position as creative nonfiction editor since 2008. I don't know whether I'll stay or be fired or fade or move with Douglas Querl to Houston. Can the Board (of four) fire someone they are not paying and who spent capital resources on them? I withdrew my bid to work as p-t paid managing editor of MHR. I realized, long story, that to work underpaid for MHR would be worse than not to be paid at all.
about an hour ago • Like • 1
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Jeffrey Side Seriously, Ann, why don’t you start your own FB group? Using other peoples' groups and threads for your own aims is not fair.
about an hour ago • Like • 1
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Ann Bogle OtherStream is Bob Grumman's wor(l)d, and he hasn't said no prosetics yet.
about an hour ago • Like
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Tim VanDyke Actually, it isn't his wor(l)d, not solely at least. But it is so obvious you are trying to drive an agenda home through everybody here. It is also obvious there are plenty of other venues for your agenda. So the fact that you aren't using those venues raises some questions.
about an hour ago • Like
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Bob Grumman FacebookI love the word, Ann, but I don’t know exactly what it means yet. Anyway, I’m not the one in charge here, so I wouldn’t be able to ban it even if I thought it should be banned.
49 minutes ago via • Like
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Ann Bogle Tim VanDyke, you are advocating self-censorship, I think, yet not of Jeffey Side.
44 minutes ago • Like
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Rich Haber S.O.P., when confronted with un-labeled genre-defying misun-named disabuse of scrawly and unruly electronic blips fathomed within boxes of windowlytic eye-bytes, the crowd will invariably ostracize and otherwise pariah-cize and prioricize for demoltion, said practitioner of such witchcraftery. giving up waiting for ?? among even the best of american artists, where x = c, so no one has to guess at the cost of freedom
43 minutes ago • Like
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Rich Haber wow, billy sunday. enigmatic for sure. a movie waiting to be made.
41 minutes ago • Like
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Ann Bogle Bob Grumman, prosetics at Google still offers prosthetics as an alternative and most of the links are for prosthetics. In WHAT at F'naut I trace the origin of my using the word in 2001 (it was while visiting mIEKAL aND at Dreamtime). I had arrived wearing a winter white wool coat carrying a tawny leather briefcase full of prosetics notes and captured writings, and Zon commented that I seemed like a Hollywood scout or agent, who needed, he said a little later, "to roll in clean dirt." I could not stay out of mIEKAL's lap, and Zon came in the office, where m. and I were collaborating in html prosetics, and saw the way we were sitting, in m.'s lap facing him, and Zon said, "Take it outside! Take it outside!"
35 minutes ago • Like • 1
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Tim VanDyke I just see you and your agenda petulantly and unnecessarily overstaying its welcome, Ann. There are plenty of other places more suited to your needs. I don't think asking a baker not to speak at a fundraiser for the physics department is exactly censorship,
34 minutes ago • Like
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Rich Haber anyone for a game of whack-a-mole?
29 minutes ago • Like
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Ann Bogle Jeffrey Side, I'll ask that you preserve this thread and ask your cohorts who are administrators to preserve it as welll, as the work laid here has value, and if anyone of you knows a way to transfer this thread to a group I start for Prosetics, I will transfer it.Tim VanDyke, fuck you, though you probably haven't killed anyone yet. If you had said "barker" but you said "baker" among physicists. My aunt, Frances Alsmiller, b. 1929 in Wisconsin, was a physicist who worked on the Apollo Project and at Oak Ridge and who was married for almost 50 years to a physicist named Tut Alsmiller who worked by her side. They collected art.
13 minutes ago • Like • 1
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Rich Haber just started reading WπHπAπT - history, eh? don't know how berry fits into this, hope he comes out rosy, cause i like his music.
8 minutes ago • Like
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Ann Bogle Jake Berry is up with p(rose)y and an American. I still hope to review his correspondence with Jeffrey Side, published as Other Voices. Mark Wallace, American candid!
2 minutes ago • Like
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Ann Bogle 89 comments, 3 like this.
about a minute ago • Like • 1

[Thread continues (or not) in two groups, Otherstream and The Argotist Online, at Facebook.  I am just a chick.  How would I know what those men later wrote?]

Alles ist gut, das will gut

Sane Hatters' Review

After Carol moved from NYC to Asheville, she attracted sane people whom she appointed to serve on the small board that decides things for her endowed non-profit, Mad Hat. Her crazy friends and faux relatives who formed around the journal must carry on their baggage alone, without her as Mad Hatterish conductor. I am part of a diaspora. I left my position as cnfic editor in protest of the way the board treated Carol's friend and caregiver, Douglas Querl. Goodbye, MHR, after four good unpaid years' work. All's well that intends well.

[There was nearing a quorum of German speakers at Mad Hat, so I translated Ana Verse to German using the Microsoft translator embedded in the left sidebar]:

Gesund Hatters Review:

Nachdem Carol von NYC, Asheville, zog sie vernünftigen Menschen, die sie bestimmt auf der kleinen Platine dienen, die Dinge für ihr dotierten gemeinnützige, Mad Hat entscheidet. Ihre verrückten Freunde und faux Verwandten, die um die Zeitschrift gebildet müssen auf ihr Gepäck allein, ohne sie als Mad Hatterish Dirigent tragen. Ich bin Teil einer Diaspora. Ich verließ meine Position als Cnfic Editor aus Protest gegen das Board Carols Freund und Betreuer, Douglas Querl behandelte. Auf Wiedersehen, MHR, nach vier guten unbezahlten Jahren Arbeit. Alles ist gut, das will gut.

[Then I translated the German version back to English in Google translator]:

Healthy Hatters Review:

After Carol of NYC, Asheville, she drew reasonable people they intended to serve the small circuit board, the things for her prize-profit, Mad has decided. Your crazy friends and relatives faux, which have formed around the magazine on their luggage alone, without wearing a Mad Hatterish conductor. I am part of a diaspora. I left my position as editor in protest against the Cnfic Board Carols friend and supervisor, Douglas Querl treated. Goodbye, MHR, after four good years of unpaid labor. All is well, wishing well.

Letter from Ann Bogle to Buffalo Poetics Listserv on August 18, 2012 (excerpt):

"Alles ist gut, das will gut" is a partly censored item (the original paragraph in English was censored twice; the machine-translated German version and its machine-retranslated English version were not censored), both at Facebook Mad about Mad Hatters' Review group by Marc Vincenz and due to his diligence at Fictionaut, where Carol Novack had asked me to administer a small group for Mad Hatters' Review in the spirit of cooperation and Marc Vincenz had later delegated to me the same duty.  I got Marc his first job at Mad Hatters' Review, co-editor in poetry, in the first week of October 2010, though he never stated his job title that way.  He stated on the Internet editor in poetry.  Carol Novack who might know that best besides the two of us has died.  In her will, she stated that her friend and caregiver, Douglas Querl, may stay at her house, deeded to Mad Hat, a non-profit she formed, as long as he likes and that her cats stay there as well and the house not be sold for 40 years.  It was to operate as a writers' retreat, overseen by Douglas or subsequent caretaker, and meeting place for the Mad Hatters' Review staff past and present.  The attorney in Asheville who wrote the will that Carol signed, Robert Karriker, later discovered that as a deceased person, Carol cannot decide what becomes of the endowment or properties within the non-profit.  The board of four or five (names withheld) wrote Douglas an eviction letter, came to the house and removed the cats and brought them to an undisclosed location (though there was a picture of Clicquot on Facebook being nuzzled by the Asheville bank employee, friends with Karriker, whom Carol met late in life).

Mad Hatters' Review Issue 13

www.madhattersreview.com/issue13/index.shtml

Daniel Harris's The Butterfly Effect.

New from Argotist Ebooks

Country Without a Name

With illustrations by Daniel Harris

Design & layout by Marc Vincenz

"Ann Bogle’s latest collection of memoir fiction, is a sequence of thoughts, dreams and conversations. Here white petunias are cut with scissors to make a name, values are placed as if they were tarot cards, and approximations of the sublime are revealed in mathematical detail. 'Country Without a Name' recalls the work of Dada poet Tristan Tzara (whose name means 'country' in Romanian) and the semi-autobiographical pharmaceutical quests and cut-up text collages of William S. Burroughs. Bogle rebels, defines and ultimately defies hierarchies. Her writing, manifesto-like, hints at what might have been learned from Andre Breton’s Nadja if we had been given her diary to read, along with the idea that non-being dwells in language the same as being does, or in Bogle’s words: ‘Not to be she is embodied’."

--Morgan Harlow

Saratoga

The Cool Report

August 3, 2006

another girl to figure out (2)

no reason to break here/

want to tell her kinship to it

blue save them walked past

phone legs of dead Lady

black woman save them

victim standing just inside

betrayed her gray cherry

comfortable guilty long name

configuration of all mother

beautiful shades of protective

touches head lay nose whites

know French therapy bill

college man strong enough

August 3, 2006

In a message dated 8/3/06 2:05:45 AM Central Daylight Time, talan@ORG writes:

I do apologize for forwarding those emails. That it went off list was
disturbing, which motivated me to forward them to the list.

Again, I apologize.

Apologize

I've been thinking about this for a day or two. I wondered whether to tell my boyfriend about it -- that people had gone abusive on one of my email lists -- that c was in use and mfa. That I called men a b. I am a mfa, afterall, a master of fine arts. Which my boyfriend isn't. I did ask him what he thought about Mel Gibson going wacko upon his dui arrest, and he said he didn't have time to think about Mel Gibson. We were looking at the fields near his house. We went to a county fair with rides and livestock. The cattle were furious. I thought of their lives. They were angry men, basically, slated to be killed and eaten. His little boys, 3 and 5, were having fun on the rides.

There was and is a lot of bad language around town. We heard it on the 4th. The girls were saying, f me baby, f me in the butt. Who talks that way? A whole group of kids.

So for now, I just forget about it.

I think Mel Gibson should have called a producers' meeting after The Passion of the Christ, once he was rumored to be an anti-semite, then had a press conference about it. Instead of blowing up later upon arrest.

At our school, the gist was that sexism and even misogyny were acceptable or at least tolerable. I liked that school least of all my schools. At the other ones, none of the ism's was acceptable or tolerable, and we had these noticeable gaps: like not enough black students in our courses.

August 2, 2006

In a message dated 8/2/06 12:21:56 PM Central Daylight Time, tsavagebar@COM writes:

If you wake up every two or three hours, you may have sleep apnea. ... You should see a sleep specialist if you think this might be the case.

Today I went to the office of my Lebanese psychiatrist. There was a pamphlet in the waiting room warning parents about a practice called "pharming" -- the young people are buying rxs without rxs over the internet and taking them for recreation. This is really too bad that drugs are so everywhere. I really think "drugs finance wars," but the connections are mysterious (of course). I am working on helping a very good public speaker who was a drug addict try to help combat addiction at the school level. We are making some progress that way. And I knew a wonderful American exec. in Japan who quit drinking (saki) who now helps meth addicts in Oregon -- what a strange world. But I'm sure he's very good at it, enlightened. There was another article in the doc's office about snoring. If you snore, it could be sleep apnea. Thanks for recommending that anyone with sleep issues get them checked.

August 2, 2006

another girl to figure out

no reason to break here

want to tell her kinship to it

blue save them walked past

phone legs of dead Lady

black woman save them

standing just inside

betrayed me gray cherry

guilty long name

configuration of all mother

beautiful shades of protective touches

head lay whites

nose know French

therapy bill college

man gone me

strong enough heart

August 2, 2006

It gets better after this... all back channel of course...

On Wed, 2 Aug 2006 02:08:13 EDT
AnnBogle1@COM wrote:
>In a message dated 8/2/06 12:55:03 AM Central Daylight Time,
>talan@MEMMOTT.ORG writes:
>
>
>> On Tue, 1 Aug 2006 22:48:57 -0700
>> "August" wrote:
>> >fuck u cunt
>>
>
>you crowded bitch.

Re: Forward these remarks pussy ass:

At 11:28 PM -0700 8/1/06, Talan Memmott wrote:
>Since August seems to think this is COOL!,
>I am forwarding...
>his latest, greatest work!
>
>
>
>On Tue, 1 Aug 2006 23:25:47 -0700
> "August" wrote:
>>Forward these remarks u straight-up ho:
>>
>>
>>Ya better run boy
>>i'll dump a shell in your chest
>>
>>keep it very cool
>>or i will bury you
>>
>>u are not hot
>>i've got the top spot
>>and it will not stop
>>
>>mother-fucker, this is personal
>>
>>you're a bitch and straight-up ho
>>
>>fake-ass bitch
>>
>>i mean this and i said this
>>
>>i'll take u to the streets and get gangster with it

August 2, 2006

Progress Report

There is a drug made in Japan called ABILIFY. It is very expensive: $300 for a month's worth or more. I've tried that and other new anti-psychotics, and it's the best one (Geodon, Zyprexa, Seroquel are others); I like it better than those due to the fact that I experience no side-effects on it, just a little drowsiness. It feels, in other words, completely normal to be on it, yet I believe it has helped stabilize me physically when I couldn't do that on my own -- my weight was too low before I went on Abilify. It doesn't actually make me stop thinking on the dose I take (10 mg.), but I bet if you took a higher dose, you might be able to quiet rowdy thought. I have profoundly mixed feelings about med's, especially due to my recent realization that the med's probably finance world war, and I'm against war, and the med's could hurt your liver and kidneys -- though mine are still fine, but I also went three years without being able to stabilize myself or my own weight without a low-dose tranq. Without anti-dep's, my brain turns to a pile of vegetable peels in the sink. This is all very sad. I used to be just fine without any medications.

How did I end up back on Wryting-L? I had unsubscribed then all of a sudden I'm getting posts again. That's all right. I'll read the list for a while.

Good wishes.

July 28, 2006

Cool

I wrote short stories steadily until 1991, at the advent of the Gulf War, and would have continued, certainly -- one of the war stories from '91, "What Kiss," was published in '93 in Gulf Coast -- except that a boyfriend of three months assailed me and threatened me on an answering machine tape then took a position in my department, despite a kind of quiet protest coming from my corner. It is, I think, obvious how hard it would be to protest anything successfully. The upshot for me was that my relationship with my own writing was threatened, never to return to the steady flow I had enjoyed with it. I have only written two short stories since then but have written other things. My weblog is a notebook of mixing genres, something I was pioneering then, in '91.

At a party at school, our "head of class," not the best writer nor the worst, a gal, really, announced to my table that my voice was glamorous and that my friend was cool. We are still in this condition. She is cool; my voice is kind of nice or sweet.

My writing voice, however, is male, often, authoritative, sometimes.

I would make a reading tape, but I don't have audio on my pc.

Popular

We were popular in 4th grade, that group of girls, and then I was again at 25 (up to 25 more childish attacks had threatened my becoming) -- and then again at 35. By 35, I was only popular in AA.

It was very strange and happy to meet up with someone (the Jewish man) who had had a poem published in The New Yorker when he was only 19 in a rec room in a little side town in AA. He had lived for 18 years as an international business exec. in Japan and was then 50. His wife had vetoed a poetry career. I couldn't agree with her decision. He was really a very wonderful friend and knowledgeable about literature and religion and not in any way a cw program man. He was intending to write fantasy now that he was divorcing. I'd like to know when I think about it -- if cool is what he was. He was more mature and well-liked. He gave the impression of being someone who had taken the stairs down fifty flights away from a downsizing; then there was nothing corporate for him to do here in the U.S., our nation’s logic. I think he was more cool upon reflection.

Even if he did not like my friend, the Jewish woman in our group, I was her ally; I was his, too. (I think it worried him that someone might try to matchmake them since both were divorcing, and I could see it not working that way, since he was more conservative and she was more reform.) Then he left town to take a job, and the group got really horrid without him there. It was like a Tarrantino movie with lots of death.

One night when she wasn't there I stood up for her and was hit, at my car, and the police interrogated me after I called them.

July 27, 2006

Error on Ron Silliman's Blog

This mislinking at Silliman's weblog has led me to read something from the voice of an outsider, for a change, and I'm glad of it, even though Carlo Parcelli mostly steps on toes in his piece. The prose, instead of seeming too strange to read, strikes me as being strong -- it's some sort of lit. crit. tapdancing -- and reminds me of reading at Baraka's website. I was impressed by such extended use of analogy throughout a lengthy essay even if it does rely on outsider terminology. It is so thorough in its dismissal of so many writers: Perhaps IT is supposed to be a seminal critique. John Gardner's ON MORAL FICTION, though certainly polite, stepped on toes, too, albeit a different set than this does. And it goes to show that no matter how politely one goes about it, it is a difficult thing to suggest bias. Remember that Gardner chose Guy Davenport as one of the best writers then living, while simultaneously dismissing many of the fashionable crowd of the day (1982?).

July 26, 2006

“House Nigga and Field Nigga” (Flashpoint) by Carlo Parcelli:

Paraphrase: by terms of Parcelli’s essay, I myself am a paranoid field nigga who reads mentally stable house niggas most. You might say that is a good thing, too. Sometimes I do read a fellow yellow field nigga or, better yet, a red free nigga (I wish he had given a fuller bibliographic list of those). In fact, workshop consists in reading field niggas' work. One or two of those will advance from the barn to the house. The rest will leave the barn and go back out to the field, temporarily stoked on field niggas' fallible styles and untested awareness, to try to survive reading life outside comfortable halls and rooms.

This might seem too rude to mention: an alcoholic man actually called me a "niggy" once because I'd been cleared out of AA for trying to stand by a Jewish mom in there who was getting evicted from her real house and torn away from custody of her daughters by her ice-cream-scarfing, woman-hating, fat dreck of a husband from Wyoming. Standing up for someone who is in the right, against public resistance, is the opposite of selling out. Weird thing is, later, there really is no world outside of AA -- by house masters' terms -- poetic AAs want in the house, too; and there are only a few places for ex-barn fallows like us to shelter. May go ask the fox.

It's understood that pharmaceutical co's have picked up in U financing where the Cold War trickle down left off, but I wouldn't have known that in 1991.

June 29, 2006

Economic Messages

This just in from "Absolute Resolutions Corp": a balance due of $48.54, passed on to ARC by CIRCA POETRY, another debt management concern. I owe them for a hardcover copy of TOUCH OF TOMORROW, published by The International Library of Poets, that featured my poem, "Florence's Weekend" on the first page. I signed off permission for another poem "It's the end of a cycle" without requesting a copy of that volume, THE BEST POEMS AND POETS OF 2005.

I decided to try vanity press with my first ever published poems due to the fact that I was avoiding giving the appearance of competing with MFA and PhD poets I had gone to graduate school with in Houston. They had known me as a short story writer and somewhat hasty essayist (most of the writers there wrote VERY slowly).

With the help of a friend, I had paid off a pile of my bills one year: it equalled six years worth of hefty interest, medical costs, clothes from Target, toiletries, other incidentals, etc. The cards charged off ("R9") on the indeterminate day before my friend and I paid the tab. That means in credit terminology, the banks (6 of them) took a tax write off because my payments were seven months late, then on the following day the banks received their payment in full, including nasty "legal fees" not needed to collect from me. My credit rating is still too low due to the R9s even to rent an apartment, though I owed nothing. This is a far cry from where my credit was ten years after I started as a worker; still, there's little I can do except write letters to the bureaus. I’m feeling proud that I have wrecked my credit further due to a poem.

The job I had from Feb. to June of this year I gave to the next person, without being fired, for my near-catatonic inability to get out of the car and go into the stores where I was scheduled to start gathering retail data. My boss and supervisor were nice beyond compare when I told them I was suffering a fear of leaving my car. Agoraphobia -- fear of the marketplace -- fear of open spaces. I was earning much needed extra income from that job. The boss was so nice, in fact, he invited me to call back in August when I might feel a little better. What caused my near inability to leave my car? It isn't poetry, but it might be writing-related.

Google Adsense disabled my account due to my invalid clicks but left these blank patches on my weblog where the ads for how to blog used to be. I wrote to THEM, too, and told them that many of my readers are sophisticated bloggers themselves, more sophisticated than I, who will not click on ads for how to blog. I learned that Google was getting paid at least $1 for each of those, yet I was getting paid closer to a penny a day. I see that my friend, Robin Reagler, advocates for wonderful poetry books at her weblog, Big Window. That's for the best.

June 24, 2006

Praise to Vernon Frazer for his letter.

Thanks to mIEKAL aND for asking, "how many potato peelers and window washers are there on this list?"

Hats to Ken Wolman, a fellow SUNYionian.

Regards to the writer on SSI, the winner who worked as a custodian, and all those who write because they say they have to and feel that economic questioning, necessity, and reality make for reasonable debate.

Quite a number mentioned scamming; one man at his weblog quoted my letter headed by the statement that I ought to be smacked.

Women on the list are apparently unconcerned with how to earn $10,000 per year, which is both a good indicator and for some reason not good for my morale.

After jobhunting every fall for eight years, I got an offer to teach in China. I adored the man who offered me the job. He said he liked my credentials and c.v. I reflected about what was listed there: the courses I had taken, including women writers and modernism, but not only: 40 courses and seminars in English alone, covering three degrees, German proficiency, creative writing, and liberal arts. I didn't go to China, however. I would have gone there in debt wearing their clothing. I was afraid to owe even $4,000 (what I still owe) living overseas.

So, again, if I get up to solvency, options I don't have now might open up, but it has been a very long haul. My health is good. The unemployment started at age 32.

No one suggested, as they did in chunking out the community college jobs in Houston: women can just get married. Considering that those men were looking for heiresses and lawyers to marry themselves, I don't know which men they thought might marry us: creative writers making $3,000 per semester teaching four nights a week.

This crazy geographer I went on a date with -- he told me, among other things that he is a Marxist, that I am "too thin for farm life," that he had been his family's breadwinner, that his wife stayed at home until the divorce then became a well-paid R.N. He said he had never met another woman like me in comparable financial circumstances -- I am seemingly set in a comfortable house in a beautiful part of the metro area but am staggeringly poor. He had had to refinance his farm when his wife wanted to go her separate way, and it left him feeling against the community property law in his state. He needs a housekeeper and told me to be a waitress after I had sent him my c.v. He said there was someone teaching English at his U who couldn't speak English. ETC.

One of my brainstorms has been to study housekeeping. You who do are smart to teach reading -- I used to do that and liked it better than teaching writing. If someone were to teach house cleaning locally, I would sign up. To be really good and content at that would possibly get me somewhere.

It makes me uncomfortable that so many people I know (three?) know Bush but no one I know knows the Clintons, Gores, Kerrys or Wellstones.

June 22, 2006

Dear bloggers and visitors to blogs,

What about advertising? I am not presently in a position to have sit-down (face-to-face) conversations with other bloggers, but I have done a little reading. I recently signed up for Adsense with Google. On my first day, I clicked on my own ads so many times, I temporarily shut down a little church website on how to blog. I felt stunned and horrible for doing so; then I read the policies and learned that clicking on my own ads is strictly prohibited. Nonetheless, I earned $40 that day, which lasted 15 hours, a little better than $2 per hour. Yesterday, I followed policy closely and earned just under $3 for the whole day. Today I have earned zip. Also yesterday, I ate a rather lousy sandwich that cost $34. How could it have cost so much? The beers (I drank almost 3 Coronas since they didn't have Rolling Rock) cost $5 each. My friend's Miller Lites cost $4. How could beer cost that much? How could advertising on my website cost so little? My blogging days tend to run long. I usually stay at it on a simple day for three hours, a harder day for ten. If I were earning $10/hour for advertising, I would be content and also would feel nicely employed. That would equal $240 per day.

$250 per classroom hour is what our least-well paid teachers at U of Houston were earning. Each made $18,000 for the semester s/he taught one undergraduate and one graduate workshop. It was one of those teachers who regarded me as one of the best writers currently in attendance at the school. Not best I would have thought since I am a Democrat. We were earning $21 per contract hour to teach and grade undergraduates 15 hours per week. Typically, I put in 30 hours -- we had 54 students apiece -- so undercut my own pay by half in order to do a more thorough job grading student papers. Today, I would be very lucky indeed if an organization offered to pay me at graduate school wages.

In Minnesota, where I have lived for ten years, pay is usually $10 per hour, up from $7.50 ten years ago. Those jobs require a high school diploma. Housing and food have gone up dramatically. Much teaching here is done on a voluntary basis. It may be possible to win more than a p-t class or two and therefore earn more than $4,000 per year. To tutor, which I prefer, I need to advertise. I need to wait to do so until the school year starts.

I am hoping to earn $10,000 per year that I now lack, and this has been true for seven years running. Creative writing as an enterprise is leaving me feeling genuinely put out and fatigued. I have so far foregone $400,000 in earnings due to having chosen to study cw as a field, and that number is only going to go up. I am dependent on the government for health insurance and family for sustenance.

My informal rank at Wisconsin, by Lorrie Moore, was top 2 or 3 then in attendance as an undergraduate; at SUNY-Binghamton, it was 1 going in, based on writing sample. At Houston, I got the fiction fellowship going in. Politically and aesthetically I was a little left and a little offbeat.

I would like to hear from anyone who has figured out a good way to earn $10,000 per year. I have had 30 jobs and don't really want just another one.

June 21, 2006

re: feminists with low-cut blouses

In a message dated 6/21/06 8:48:59 AM Central Daylight Time,

sumaurer@COM writes:

> marfa and austin

W'assup with Marfa? (That's pussy backwards in Texas.)

I was the sixth of seven editors, the last only a man, who worked for J.B. Poindexter after my graduation in '94 from U of Houston cwp on an account of a ranch he had renovated near Marfa. The account was Mr. Poindexter's own, a fascinating and already-well-written tale about llamas and hand-cut adobe. I did the editing work without ever visiting the ranch. The rooms in the b & b went for $400 per night. He met me sometimes in the kitchen of my little garage apartment, with the full light coming in on four sides, to go over the editing changes; sometimes in his palatial condominium just outside the 610 Loop; and sometimes in his office suite in a downtown skyscraper. The brass plaque outside the suite door read J. B. Poindexter, Corporate Raider. I was acting fanatical about use of the semi-colon, probably due to what C. Michael Curtis had written about the semi-colon, and C. Michael Curtis had liked some of my short stories in the 1980s. My phone rang at 8 a.m., and it would be Mr. Poindexter calling about a particular semi-colon in the 120-page document -- I had made liberal, but correct, use of them throughout the text, like sprinkling it with a minced bunch of Cilantro. How bizarre to hear a message about semi-colons from such a prosperous and busy man first thing in the morning; I had a new boyfriend, myself, and not one who'd pondered the use of the semi-colon much; he thought in songs himself. I earned $30 per hour for doing that good work.

May 26, 2006

Speak Then Read

What you never had

for your sorrow

for the work you do

Got you love enough

to be content?

Who but you

can argue for yourself?

I've got the troubles

of mine to suffer too.

We are in a boat alike

When we say yes

We are in a boat alike.

. . .

Speek den Reed

Wut ne had yoo

fore yer sarro

fore de work yoo doo

Gott yoo luv

eenuf fore to bee

cuntent?

hoo but yoo kan

argyoo fore yoreself

ai gott de trubbels uv

mine too suffer too

wee arr inn a bote alike

wenn wee say yess

wee arr inn a bote alike

(Madison, WI, 1982)